When Jesus became a man did He lost or put aside forever any of His attributes?
Is He a man forever without omnipresence?

Rosa,

Quote:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 (KJV)

4 His splendor was like the sunrise; rays flashed from his hand, where his power was hidden. Habakkuk 3:4 (NIV)

6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. Zechariah 13:6 (KJV)

I will let you put these verses together. This is the Bible evidence that Jesus is forever human. He has laid aside His omnipresence.

The redeemed humanity will study redemption throughout eternity, learning ever more of what Jesus did for us in His life and His sacrifice. In gratitude, we shall dedicate all our activities, all our art, all our music, and all that we are to return to Him the glory He gave up for us.

Yes, it is true that Jesus is forever human. He take the human nature for all eternity. But the Bible and the SP also confirm that when Jesus became man He did not cease to be divine.

Now, if he laid aside His divine atributes, where was His divinity?

The answer is in this quote:

"Think of Christ's humiliation. He took upon Himself fallen, suffering human nature, degraded and defiled by sin. He took our sorrows, bearing our grief and shame. He endured all the temptations wherewith man is beset. He united humanity with divinity: a divine spirit dwelt in a temple of flesh. He united Himself with the temple. "The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us," because by so doing He could associate with the sinful, sorrowing sons and daughters of Adam (YI Dec. 20, 1900)

Jesus took on Himself our fallen, sinful human nature, but He still was the divine God's Son. He was the same spirit, the same Person, who was with God from all eternity.

Hello, Dejan. good to see you back again!

Good thoughts in your post. I agree with what you said. There are questions, only some of which we can answer at this time. When Jesus died on Calvary, Ellen White makes the statement that "Divinity did not die."

Jesus never used the prerogatives of Divinity for Himself while on earth. The question is: Did He heal, forgive sins, raise the dead as the Divine Son of God; or did he do these miracles as a human being depending on the Father?

I believe it was the latter, as He set the pattern for all His followers until He comes again. He said that "greater works" would be done by His people, through the power given to them from above.

(07-29-2009 01:26 PM)hfsturges Wrote:  Hello, Dejan. good to see you back again!

Good thoughts in your post. I agree with what you said. There are questions, only some of which we can answer at this time. When Jesus died on Calvary, Ellen White makes the statement that "Divinity did not die."

Jesus never used the prerogatives of Divinity for Himself while on earth. The question is: Did He heal, forgive sins, raise the dead as the Divine Son of God; or did he do these miracles as a human being depending on the Father?

I believe it was the latter, as He set the pattern for all His followers until He comes again. He said that "greater works" would be done by His people, through the power given to them from above.

I agree with you. Only I have one question: How you understand the sister White's words: "Divinity did not die."
Does this mean that only the Christ human nature died and was put in the sepulchre? If you believe so, where was His divinity? Was it alive somewhere in the heaven or on the earth?

And another question, was Jesus sacrifice only human's sacrifice?

Dejan,

Here is the statement from Ellen White:

Quote: He who had said, "I lay down my life, that I might take it again," came forth from the grave to life that was in Himself. Humanity died: divinity did not die. In His divinity, Christ possessed the power to break the bonds of death. He declares that He has life in Himself to quicken whom He will. . . .
He is the spring, the fountain, of life. Only He who alone hath immortality, dwelling in light and life, could say, "I have power to lay down my life, and I have power to take it again." ...
Christ was invested with the right to give immortality. The life which He had laid down in humanity, He again took up and gave to humanity. "I am come," He says, "that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly."
Christ is life itself. He who passed through death to destroy him that had the power of death is the Source of all vitality." The Faith I Live By, p. 51

You ask the question, "Where was His Divinity?" In asking this question, you indicate that you believe His Divinity was separate from His humanity. I can understand why you ask, because this is the only way that we can humanly explain it. But there are things about the nature of Christ we cannot explain. One of these, I believe, is that His human-Divine nature is not separable. Yet I cannot explain how his humanity died and Divinity did not die. This I can only take by faith. Only He can explain it when we are saved in His Kingdom!

“When he closed his eyes in death upon the cross, the soul of Christ did not go at once to Heaven, as many believe, or how could his words be true--"I am not yet ascended to my Father"? The spirit of Jesus slept in the tomb with his body, and did not wing its way to Heaven, there to maintain a separate existence, and to look down upon the mourning disciples embalming the body from which it had taken flight. All that comprised the life and intelligence of Jesus remained with his body in the sepulcher; and when he came forth it was as a whole being; he did not have to summon his spirit from Heaven. He had power to lay down his life and to take it up again.” 3SP 203.2

Yes, the divinity of Christ does not die but was unconscious or sleep in the grave. Jesus was fully death. So, the sacrifice of Christ was not only human but it was the divine Son of God who gave His life for us.

Now, another question, what if Jesus sinned? What would happen to His divinity, His divine spirit?

Dejan,

Quote:Yes, the divinity of Christ does not die but was unconscious or sleep in the grave. Jesus was fully death. So, the sacrifice of Christ was not only human but it was the divine Son of God who gave His life for us.

Now, another question, what if Jesus sinned? What would happen to His divinity, His divine spirit?

Dejan you are asking difficult questions. Did Jesus have pre-existing consciousness and pre-existing knowledge when he lived as a man on earth? If He did then He was not a man like you and me. We have no such knowledge to help us. Jesus had to learn from His parents and from observation of life just as we do. It was not until he went to His first Passover in Jerusalem at the age of 12 that he began to understand that the sacrificial lamb pointed forward to the sacrifice that He would make. (See Desire of Ages on His Jerusalem visit).

So, what happened to His Divine consciousness?

Quote:7 but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made,
8 and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death--death even of a cross, Philippians 2:7-8 (Young's Literal Translation)

To come back to your question: What happened to the Divine consciousness as Jesus' body lay in the grave? I believe that Jesus' Divine consciousness was just where it was when He was alive. I do not know what that was. I don't have an answer. I don't think that has been revealed to us beyond what is said in Philippians 2:5-8. I am happy to let it rest there. If anyone else on this forum has insight in this, please respond.
-------------------------
Your next question: What would happen to Jesus' Divine Spirit if He sinned? As far as I know, Jesus Divinity was not "at risk" when He came to earth. He lived here as a man, and overcame sin as a man. There are two considerations here:

God, in His foreknowledge, knew that Jesus would succeed. Jesus in His life as a man did not know this. Ellen White makes a statement somewhere that if Jesus failed, the human race would die.
When God made Adam, Genesis 2:7, he put into that human being all the capabilities needed to resist and overcome the temptations of Satan. These capabilities have been fully used just once -- by Jesus Himself. Those capabilities are still there, awaiting your decision and your faith to put them into action!

(07-31-2009 05:13 AM)hfsturges Wrote:  Dejan,

Quote:Yes, the divinity of Christ does not die but was unconscious or sleep in the grave. Jesus was fully death. So, the sacrifice of Christ was not only human but it was the divine Son of God who gave His life for us.

Now, another question, what if Jesus sinned? What would happen to His divinity, His divine spirit?

Dejan you are asking difficult questions. Did Jesus have pre-existing consciousness and pre-existing knowledge when he lived as a man on earth? If He did then He was not a man like you and me. We have no such knowledge to help us. Jesus had to learn from His parents and from observation of life just as we do. It was not until he went to His first Passover in Jerusalem at the age of 12 that he began to understand that the sacrificial lamb pointed forward to the sacrifice that He would make. (See Desire of Ages on His Jerusalem visit).
So, what happened to His Divine consciousness?

Compare the next two quotes:

"At the time when He was most needed, Jesus, the Son of God, the world's Redeemer, laid aside His divinity, and came to earth in the garb of humanity." ST, March 18, 1897

and

"Christ came to this world, clothed His divinity with humanity, and gave His life, the just for the unjust." COL 245

It is clear that Jesus laid aside something and clothed something from his divinity.
What He laid aside?
His divine atributes as omniscience, omnipresence, consciousness etc.
What He clothed?
His divine identity, His divine spirit. Although man He still was the divine Son of God:
"He united humanity with divinity: a divine spirit dwelt in a temple of flesh. He united Himself with the temple. (YI Dec. 20, 1900)

hfsturges Wrote:Your next question: What would happen to Jesus' Divine Spirit if He sinned? As far as I know, Jesus Divinity was not "at risk" when He came to earth.

So, there was no risk (if I understand you) at all??? And in the case He sinned, what would happen with Him? Would He return to His Father? But if He sinned then He would be sinner. But if His divinity was not "at risk" then what? Would He became an evil God and war with the Father?
I think these are important question because we must understand God's love and what He gave for us in order that we can love Him.

Here is what sister White clearly wrote:

"Yet into the world where Satan claimed dominion God permitted His Son to come, a helpless babe, subject to the weakness of humanity. He permitted Him to meet life's peril in common with every human soul, to fight the battle as every child of humanity must fight it, at the risk of failure and eternal loss.
The heart of the human father yearns over his son. He looks into the face of his little child, and trembles at the thought of life's peril. He longs to shield his dear one from Satan's power, to hold him back from temptation and conflict. To meet a bitterer conflict and a more fearful risk, God gave His only-begotten Son, that the path of life might be made sure for our little ones. "Herein is love." Wonder, O heavens! and be astonished, O earth!" DA 49

“Never can the cost of our redemption be realized until the redeemed shall stand with the Redeemer before the throne of God. Then as the glories of the eternal home burst upon our enraptured senses we shall remember that Jesus left all this for us, that He not only became an exile from the heavenly courts, but for us took the risk of failure and eternal loss.” DA 131

"Could Satan in the least particular have tempted Christ to sin, he would have bruised the Saviour's head. As it was, he could only touch His heel. Had the head of Christ been touched, the hope of the human race would have perished. Divine wrath would have come upon Christ as it came upon Adam. Christ and the church would have been without hope." 1SM 256

and this one:

“Remember that Christ risked all; "tempted like as we are," he staked even his own eternal existence upon the issue of the conflict. Heaven itself was imperiled for our redemption. At the foot of the cross, remembering that for one sinner Jesus would have yielded up his life, we may estimate the value of a soul.” General Conference Bulletin 1st December 1895

God bless - Dejan

Dejan, you have given some very good quotations. I am including another list of quotations here:

Quote: We should have no misgivings in regard to the perfect sinlessness of the human nature of Christ. Our faith must be an intelligent faith, looking unto Jesus in perfect confidence, in full and entire faith in the atoning Sacrifice. This is essential that the soul may not be enshrouded in darkness. This holy Substitute is able to save to the uttermost; for He presented to the wondering universe perfect and complete humility in His human character, and perfect obedience to all the requirements of God. Divine power is placed upon man, that he may become a partaker of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. This is why repenting, believing man can be made the righteousness of God in Christ. 1SM, 256

Christ's humanity was united with divinity, and in this strength He would bear all the temptations that Satan could bring against Him, and yet keep His soul untainted by sin. And this power to overcome He would give to every son and daughter of Adam who would accept by faith the righteous attributes of His character. FLB 49

Christ's humanity was united with divinity; He was fitted for the conflict by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. And He came to make us partakers of the divine nature. CD 153

Comment: Was the Divine power in Christ to resist evil, and to do miracles the same Divine power God’s people receive through the Holy Spirit? In other words, did Christ exercise His Divinity in doing these things? As I see it, Jesus in His life on earth depended on the Father as much as you and I to resist evil, and to work for Him.

Quote: Jesus rested upon the wisdom and strength of His heavenly Father. He declares, "The Lord God will help Me; therefore shall I not be confounded: . . . and I know that I shall not be ashamed. . . . Isaiah 50:7,8

The Saviour, during his life on the earth, was tempted in all points like as we are, yet without sin. In him the weakness of humanity was united with the strength of divinity. Because... his humanity was united with divinity, every young man, every young woman, who chooses to follow in his footsteps, may be a partaker of the divine nature, and escape the corruption that is in the world through lust.
The high and holy privilege of overcoming as Jesus overcame, through power imparted from above, is given to those who conscientiously do all in their power to co-operate with the Source of their strength. When sorely tempted, Christ made use of his knowledge of Scripture. He met Satan with the words, "It is written." And so the apostle exhorts us, as followers of Christ:– Canadian Union Messenger, September 3, 1907, Para. 5