The title of this thread is inspired by the apostle Paul's words in Galatians 1:7. I suggest that the battle over the gospel, in the churches of that region described in Galatians, continues even today, even in the Seventh-day Adventist Church; and may be the final unfinished battle of the reformation.

Of course the gospel has always had enemies, but these enemies are not only individuals scattered here and there. They are often more organized. Paul implies that the people following him were organized enough to have a "hidden agenda" illuminated by the questions posed in Galatians 3:1-4. The apostate Roman church picked up the torch and added more layers of complication which remained until the Protestant Reformation began the process of unwrapping the true gospel. But I think at least one perversion still remains--namely the one added by Paul's first century assailants. It has been with us for 2000 years and has come to feel very comfortable.

I suspect that God sent the 1888 messengers to help us unravel this final perversion. I know the key to the solution has something to do with verse three of Paul's scolding passage, "Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" Are we so foolish to think that what Jesus starts, we can finish? Are we crazy?

George.

George,
It is so good to see you back. I was feeling a bit lonely on this forum up to now. You pose a very deep question. I know from previous conversations that it will take a lot of work to work this out -- at last how each of us believe, and maybe some consensus on some aspects of it.

I am in charge of the website for the Grand Junction Church. We are just now working on it to make it more evangelistic. Not just a list of church officers, schedules, and church news. If that is all that we do, may as well just read the bulletin each week.

I also have my two personal websites -- all of which keeps me busy

I got a pamphlet from Elder Wieland, "What Did Christ Accompllsh on His Cross" It is an answer to Larry Kane. I still need to work on it some more. But it is along the line of your questions. Will be back in a couple of days.

Thanks for stopping by, Hubert. I am looking forward to the discussion.

George.

George,

Interesting concept -- the final perversion. The very term implies that there have been perversions all along, which I think are an obvious conclusion. Lets look at the verses you referred to:

Quote: . . . “Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ” (Galatians 1:7, KJV).

. . . “O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
. . . “This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
. . . “Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
. . . “Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain” (Galatians 3:1-4, KJV).

Let me offer a proposal based on observation and logic:
After 1844 the Adventist church carried a message of keeping the law of God to the already converted members of other churches. By the 1880's the situation in other churches had changed, and the Adventist message had become stale.

Waggoner and Jones in 1888 brought a message that brought Adventism out of legalism into a message of grace. The issue still remains as to whether this message was fully accepted by the church, but I think that it was largely accepted in part. (Am I talking out of two sides of my mouth?)

A new message of grace came after the 1950's. This was a message of grace alone, and the law was downgraded. The result was that we joined the other churches in an age of permissiveness.

We know that the final issue will center on the seventh-day Sabbath, and keeping of the law. Yet this must be a balanced message, balanced with a true understanding of the grace that makes it possible for Christians to keep the law. Ellen White tells us that this message must be preached “more fully.”

This will make up the “loud Cry” message. Will this be a return to the 1888 message? Or will it be a new message incorporating the essence of 1888 but with a new emphasis on keeping the law?

(03-16-2010 03:30 AM)hfsturges Wrote:  Waggoner and Jones in 1888 brought a message that brought Adventism out of legalism into a message of grace. The issue still remains as to whether this message was fully accepted by the church, but I think that it was largely accepted in part. (Am I talking out of two sides of my mouth?)

I would say that the message was given for the purpose of bringing the church out of legalism, however it is crystal clear that we have not escaped, but are still stuck in the condition of those Paul is addressing in Gal. 3:3. We have been taught for thousands of years that we must take the baton from Christ's hand, and finish the race through our own effort. This is likely the basis for our confusion regarding Sanctification. We want to say that Sanctification is mediated to us the same way Justification is--it's all a free gift through Christ--and yet we end up with the emphasis on our own hard struggle. Every time we look down, we are holding that baton again.

hfsturges Wrote:  We know that the final issue will center on the seventh-day Sabbath, and keeping of the law. Yet this must be a balanced message, balanced with a true understanding of the grace that makes it possible for Christians to keep the law. Ellen White tells us that this message must be preached “more fully.”

In the closing hours the law must be followed precisely in every action and word and thought. Given the enormity of that task, who would you pick for the anchor lap? You or Christ? Yes, it is a team effort, but our part is small. We are His temple. Shouldn't we hand that baton back to Christ and let Him run His perfect race in us?

George.

George,

An emphasis on "our own hard struggle?" How about the "hard, stern, battle with self?" How about the "good fight of faith?" It seems that there is a battle that we must fight. Even Jesus said that we must "deny self, take up your cross and follow Me."

To say that Jesus "does it all" is asking for a free ride. Yes He does do it all, but we must consent (DA 668), decide (Steps to Christ), put our will in His hands. It is harder to deny self than to do penance, give alms, or other works. God does not over-ride free will. Once we make that decision, Jesus gives us grace and power to follow Him.

So "our part is small" but it is a critical part, and is the difference between those who are saved at last, and those who might be in the church but who have never had a relationship with Christ.

(03-17-2010 03:36 AM)hfsturges Wrote:  An emphasis on "our own hard struggle?" How about the "hard, stern, battle with self?" How about the "good fight of faith?" It seems that there is a battle that we must fight. Even Jesus said that we must "deny self, take up your cross and follow Me."

Hubert, I think you may be laboring under the final perversion to some degree. I decided to check the quoted phrases above against the EGW database. I didn't find the phrase, "our own hard struggle". I think we should be as accurate as possible when we quote because others may be using our phrases to search with. So then I searched without quotation marks and found the following in YI 11/10/86:

Quote:Why life with many is such a hard struggle is because it is apart from Christ; through self-delusion the battle is waged blindly with circumstances...

I'm assuming that wasn't the one you were remembering since that seems to support the opposite position. The next place I looked was RH Dec. 13, 1887. There I found the following:

Quote:...The reason why many find the Christian life so deplorably hard, why they are so fickle, so variable, is, they try to attach themselves to Christ without first detaching themselves from these cherished idols.

According to this a Christian life is hard, but not if you do it right. This passage is repeated in several places. Next, in Testimonies to South Africa (1977) p.12, there is a citation from Letter 14, 1887. This may be what you are thinking of:

Quote:Every one of you united in this missionary work, both our brethren and sisters who act a part in it, are men and women of strong wills. This is as it should be, if each has practised equal self-control. But this lesson has not been learned as thoroughly as it should be. If you are willing to learn meekness and lowliness of heart in Christ’s school, He will surely give you rest and peace. It is a terribly hard struggle to give up your own will and your own way. But this lesson learned, you will find rest and peace. Pride, selfishness, and ambition must be overcome; your will must be swallowed up in the will of Christ. The whole life may become one constant love sacrifice, every action a manifestation, and every word an utterance of love...

Yet, even here, once the baton is handed to Christ--once the lesson is learned in His school--life becomes easy. The hard struggle comes before the surrender.

hfsturges Wrote:  To say that Jesus "does it all" is asking for a free ride. Yes He does do it all, but we must consent (DA 668), decide (Steps to Christ), put our will in His hands. It is harder to deny self than to do penance, give alms, or other works. God does not over-ride free will. Once we make that decision, Jesus gives us grace and power to follow Him.

So "our part is small" but it is a critical part, and is the difference between those who are saved at last, and those who might be in the church but who have never had a relationship with Christ.

These two paragraphs look good as long as we can agree that the consenting and the deciding correspond to placing the baton in Christ's hand. The struggle is to surrender the will. After that, according to the above EGW statements, life is a breeze for us.

In the context of this thread, I would suggest that the great perversion that Paul talked about was akin to people coming into the churches of Galatia and persuading them that they must take the baton and run their own race thus ruining the gospel and turning it into bad news. And I believe we are still falling for it. We need Jones and Waggoner bad.

George.

George,
The phrase "our own hard struggle?" is from your own post, though I don’t deny the concept. I searched the EGW CD-ROM and found the following:

Quote: . . . “But Christ has given us no assurance that to attain perfection of character is an easy matter. A noble, all-round character is not inherited. It does not come to us by accident. A noble character is earned by individual effort through the merits and grace of Christ. God gives the talents, the powers of the mind; we form the character. It is formed by hard, stern battles with self. Conflict after conflict must be waged against hereditary tendencies. We shall have to criticize ourselves closely, and allow not one unfavorable trait to remain uncorrected” Christ’s Object Lessons, 331

Also found in God’s Amazing Grace, ch. 104, 138; MYP ch 25; Mind, Character and Personality, p. 546; My Life Today, p. 271; Reflecting Christ, ch 284; R&H Dec 29, 1896; The Watchman, February 5, 1907.

The additional references are largely a repeat of the original passage. What might be significant is that this passage is given a total of nine times. In this paragraph you will note words like “earned, effort, we form, conflict must be waged, criticize ourselves” etc.

It is true that this battle is much harder, even impossible, without Christ; yet the “hard, stern battle with self” must be fought. It is difficult to put self aside, but once that is done, we have rest in Jesus Christ.

Quote: . . . “Yet, even here, once the baton is handed to Christ--once the lesson is learned in His school--life becomes easy. The hard struggle comes before the surrender.”

From this quote that you gave in your last post, you agree that there is a “hard struggle” before surrender. If this is a “final perversion” then we are walking together in the battle!

About Jones and Waggoner, they brought a message from God, which we need to understand. They were not perfect, and as we go on we must discern their imperfections and leave them behind.

Hubert, you have inspired me to study EGW's writing on the subject of stern battle. Over the last two days I have spent hours comparing many paragraphs, looking for the development of her thought on the issue. Everything appears to come down to five paragraphs, and here they are in order of date. There seems to be a generational relationship between these passages through time.

Quote:August 26, 1884 Review and Herald--A spotless character is as precious as the gold of Ophir. Without pure, unsullied virtue, none can ever rise to any honorable eminence. But noble aspirations and the love of righteousness are not inherited. Character cannot be bought; it must be formed by stern efforts to resist temptation. The formation of a right character is the work of a lifetime, and is the outgrowth of prayerful meditation united with a grand purpose. The excellence of character that you possess must be the result of your own effort. Friends may encourage you, but they cannot do the work for you. Wishing, sighing, dreaming, will never make you great or good. You must climb. Gird up the loins of your mind, and go to work with all the strong powers of your will. It is the wise improvement of your opportunities, the cultivation of your God-given talents, that will make you men and women that can be approved of God, and a blessing to society. Let your standard be high, and with indomitable energy, make the most of your talents and opportunities, and press to the mark.

September 18, 1884 Signs of the Times--A spotless character is as precious as the gold of Ophir. None can rise to an honorable eminence without pure, unsullied virtue. But noble aspirations and the love of righteousness are not inherited. Character cannot be bought; it must be formed by daily efforts to resist temptation. The formation of a right character is the work of a lifetime, and must be the result of individual effort. Friends may encourage you, dear youth; but they cannot do the work for you. Wishing, sighing, dreaming, will never make you great or good. You must climb. Gird up the loins of your mind, and go to work with all the strong powers of your will. It is the wise improvement of your opportunities, the cultivation of your God-given talents, that will make you men and women that can be approved of God and a blessing to society. Let your standard be high, and with indomitable energy press to the mark.

December 29, 1896 Review and Herald--Character cannot be bought with gold; it does not come to us by accident. Character is earned by individual effort through the merits and grace of Christ. It is formed by hard, stern battles with self. Conflict after conflict must be urged against hereditary tendencies. We shall have to criticize ourselves closely, and allow not one unfavorable trait to remain uncorrected, unreformed.

Christ's Object Lessons 331 (1900)--But Christ has given us no assurance that to attain perfection of character is an easy matter. A noble, all-round character is not inherited. It does not come to us by accident. A noble character is earned by individual effort through the merits and grace of Christ. God gives the talents, the powers of the mind; we form the character. It is formed by hard, stern battles with self. Conflict after conflict must be waged against hereditary tendencies. We shall have to criticize ourselves closely, and allow not one unfavorable trait to remain uncorrected.

February 5, 1907 Southern Watchman--Character cannot be bought with gold; it cannot come to us by accident. Character is attained by individual effort, aided by the grace of Christ. It is formed by hard, stern battles with self. Conflict after conflict must be urged against hereditary tendencies.

These resulted from a fairly fuzzy but certainly not exhaustive search. Nonetheless it seems that in all her life, Sister White only wrote on this particular issue several times. (All of the eight passages found in compilations are copies of the COL paragraph). All in all, this does not appear to be one of her major themes and I think the hardness of the struggle spoken of in these few places has been over-emphasized, especially in this forum. We seem to like it.

Given the statements we looked at in my previous post, which all basically say that if a Christian life is hard it's because you're doing it without Christ, I suggest that our eagerness to emphasize hardness is a manifestation of our acceptance of the "other gospel" of Galatians. We have bought into the ridiculous notion that while Christ starts the race, we must finish it and as a result we are all experiencing hard struggles. In reality, Christ's yoke is easy. If you are finding that your life is a hard struggle, you should check the other neck hole of the yoke. It might be empty.

George.

(03-19-2010 02:51 AM)hfsturges Wrote:  

Quote: . . . “Yet, even here, once the baton is handed to Christ--once the lesson is learned in His school--life becomes easy. The hard struggle comes before the surrender.”

From this quote that you gave in your last post, you agree that there is a “hard struggle” before surrender. If this is a “final perversion” then we are walking together in the battle!

That's right. The main reason we are all having hard struggles now is because we are not free of the final perversion. The old man needs to die, not be struggled with continually. Isn't it odd that we spend so much time fighting with a man that should be dead?

hfsturges Wrote:  About Jones and Waggoner, they brought a message from God, which we need to understand. They were not perfect, and as we go on we must discern their imperfections and leave them behind.

But please let us be careful to separate out what Paul saw coming into the Christian churches of Galatia 2000 years ago. It's time to be set free to share the pure gospel.

George.